jsfantome's Journal, 15 Aug 11

just throwing this out there but maybe your body is telling you that you are meant to be about 145 pounds and you will never get to 140. I don't want to sound negative but sometimes when our body holds steady there is a reason for it. 

My dear friend - first please don't panic! And please don't think that because you are stuggeling, you are not a wonderful and valuable member of this community. that is honestly the most rediculous thing I have ever heard you say. What I would do without you is truely questionable and I KNOW I am not the only person here that you help. OK enough with that - I wonder if you are exercising less than you were when you got to the 140 mark? Sounds as if you may be. That is my big problem with exercise other than I am just plain lazy. I worry that if I start the exercise program and get to my goal weight - I know I will not keep up the exercise and therefore will I gain weight back??? I can't see how I would not. I wonder if this is the thing with you?? Plus, we all know that as we age, our bodies change. Your body is showing you this with the TOM issues. Is it possible that the hormonal changes are causing you to retain weight? These are things that I think you should ponder a bit. I am not saying reset your goal but maybe you need to stick to plan, up the exercise and expect a very slow slide back to 140. The other thing that comes to mind is the calories in - calories out theory. Could you use that method to re-assess your current situation? While I am a true believe in the low carb approach, I don't think it negates the calories 'science'. Regarding the blood work... What was it before this last check? How big a change was it? how long had it been between checks? I take zocor for cholesterol issues. I found over the years that it did not matter what I ate - my cholesterol is high. My Grandmother has the same issue - it is apparently inherited for me. Maybe you need to think about that aspect in addition to your WOE. You can change your protiens to lower cholesterol ones such as Chicken and lean meats and see if it changes your cholesterol numbers. But honestly, I think I would maintain for now and have it checked again. if it is still higher than you want it - try to eat leaner meats. if it is still higher than you want - change up the fats. You are so good at knowing what you are eating and how it affects your body that I know you will find the answer to this issue as well. not sure about the supplements that you take but have they changed any since the last blood work? Do you take fish oil? You might want to change some supplements to see if that matters. Does any of this help? I am sure you have already thought of all this but sometimes 2 minds are better than one :) 

Paula - As with Esimnons, I was curious - have you had normal cholesterol reading in the past and have they suddenly spiked? Since I re-started this in January I've cut my Crestor down to 1/2 pill 3 X week and my LDL is still OK (have never had problems with triglycerides). My goal is to eventually get off the Crestor. Thanks Paula - you just might be helping us all out here! 

Maybe a follow-up with your dr is in order? A nice thing about this site is the ability to export your food journals into Excel. Maybe doing some summary analysis of the specific foods you eat & bringing it to your dr could help. I brought a monthly summary report & a detail report of a typical day to my last physical & my dr looked at it closely (which I appreciated). 

You guys are a lifeline to my sanity! ;) Thank you!!! My last readings were in June 2009. (had not started atkins/was eating low fat.) Don't remember the individual numbers and don't have them handy... but the totals were 2009 - 210, and now, 2011 - 268. I will be seeing my doctor in Sept to go over these results. She wrote on the lab sheet WAY TOO HIGH...and I am thinking she will want to put me on something. I am NOT taking statins! As for my WOE ... have breaking news!!! Period just started... so the PMS, bloat, weight gain, retention crap... is likely due to that! STILL... I really need to wrap my head around getting this back down, and somewhere around the 140 mark steady. Pixi - I would normally agree with you... but when you sit down and you have a roll of belly fat ... you just know you're not done yet. I am not looking to be a stick or anything... perhaps toning and going to Curves will help overall. This year so far in Maintenance has been quite the learning experience - for sure! It's a very fluid experience. I thought I would land ... and stay stationary! HA! At least not so far! It's been every bit as much work. It truly is about LIVING this lifestyle... it's just not words. Every day. I must remain diligent... or I feel like I'm screwed. And frankly, that's a crappy way to feel. (just being honest!) 

Paula, you are very right about it being a true lifestyle change. It is forever and not just a temporary thing. Hang in there. You will be 140 again. Hang tough and true and it will happen. HUGS:):) 

I think toning and going to Curves will help you alot (especially with the roll around your belly.) I know you are not looking to be stick thin, and that being healthy is your ultimate goal but perhaps you have reached your ultimate wieght that is right for your body and you just need to tone up now you know? Either way good luck, and hopefully your Dr. is able to help you with out putting you on pills! 

Paula, definitely don't panic (any more than you already are). In the midst of your continued reading, look for blood work info from the Drs. Eades (Protein Power) and/or Gary Taubes. Seems like there can be perfectly reasonable explanations why some reading can be "off" per the standard medical community but, in reality, perfectly fine. I also seem to recall something from Taubes (maybe??) about the general, basic cholesterol test being next-to-worthless. And (from Eades??), something about the typical, cheaper LDL "test" being a simple subtraction based on your other values, rather than a true test for your LDL. I know this seems like a lot of haze, but that's all I remember - if I find something definitive I can point you to, I'll let you know. 

Thank you, once again, for sharing your journey. I've learned so much reading your journal entries and responses from others. This is definately a learning process, and I agree with the post above about checking out Eades' writings. I read Protein Power Lifestyle recently and remember reading an explanation about "off" results. Hopefully, you'll feel some relief from concerns soon! In the meantime, please don't feel you shouldn't be sharing the wisdom you've aquired over your journey. It's been invalueable to so many! 

Paula, I am going to tell you what you tell everyone. If you are doing everything you say you are and have not faultered at all - then you know it's just mother nature messing with you. It sounds like your hormones are all out of whack and you should know how that will affect your weight loss. I haven't had a TOM since earlier this year but I still PMS and I still crave and bloat/retain. So maybe you are retaining. Now how high are your triglycerides and cholesterol? Are they harmfully high or age related high? I wish I knew what to say because I have always known the opposite to happen when following Atkins properly - as you have. As far as your weight? Why are you still bothered by it? Honey you are working out and have obviously built muscle mass. Not sure how tall you are but I think you are within the weight range you should be in. What size are you wearing? Is there any reason why you aren't comfortable here? If you haven't done so lately - get out your old Atkins books (the ones written by the man, himself) and see what he has to say regarding the subject. Sorry I don't have any concrete to add. Sending you my best and I hope you get it taken care of without detering you. Love. 

Hello. I'm a newbie, but have a little info that may be of some help. I was VERY skeptical of the Atkins diet when someone I knew started it several years ago. It went against everything I had ever read from the medical establishment about needing a high fiber, and hence high carb, low fat, low cholesterol diet for it to be a healthy diet. It sounded absurd that it would actually make you lose weight, but even after hearing that it undoubtedly was good at that, I figured it may only be a temporary weight loss and even if it *was* long term you'd be at much higher risk of heart disease and cancer. The heart associations and cancer associations were all for a low fat, high fiber diet. But I finally broke down and read science writer Gary Taubes' book, "Why We Are Fat, and what to do about it" after seeing a little blurb about a chat he was doing on a newspaper's website. When I looked the book up I was surprised that he apparently touted a very similar program to that of Dr. Atkins. I saw our library carried it, and although I had to wait in line for awhile to even get access to the online copy, I finally read it. I was astounded at the science and the history behind everything. One of the things he discussed was cholesterol levels, and LDL levels in particular. If I remember correctly, cholesterol levels were everything. 200 was the magic number and we needed to keep our levels below that to reduce risk of heart attacks, arteriosclerosis, atherosclerosis etc. Then they discovered that some cholesterol was "good" cholesterol and some was bad. The HDL was actually good for you and helped reduce risk of heart attacks etc. It was the LDL that was "bad". Triglycerides were also bad. I think they were even saying that it was the *ratio* of HDL to LDL that was far more critical than overall cholesterol levels. Taubes wrote that the Atkins diet reduces triglycerides and that in fact doctors used triglycerides as a more reliable indicator of how much carbs people were eating than their own recollections of what they ate and how much they ate. There was a strong relation between the two. He also said that a low carb Atkins style diet raised the "good cholesterol", HDL, levels. Moreover, he said that the latest research indicates that there are two types of LDL cholesterol, type A, which is composed of very large molecules, which float around the bloodstream harmlessly, and small type B LDL which is the "bad" type. Taubes said that a low carb diet increases the "type A" LDL, which he described as neutral, neither good nor bad, but lowered the bad "type B", small molecule LDL which had a tendency to get stuck in the blood vessels and cause problems. He cited a study that compared various diets and Atkins compared favorably to the others. The participants had higher HDL levels, which was good, lower triglycerides, which was also good, higher type A LDL, which is neutral, and lower type B LDL, which is good. He maintained that the overall effect on the blood was good, even though adding it all up, the Atkins participants had a slightly elevated cholesterol level and slightly higher LDL levels. He said when you dig down deeper into the details it had a positive effect. As luck would have it, I happened across a post on the Atkins forums where the OP was worried about elevated LDL levels. There are some very informative posts below the OP that indicate that a typical blood test doesn't drill down far enough to allow one to better discern the total effect. http://community.atkins.com/discussions/viewTopic/p/topicId/6802360/LDL_very_very_high.htm?messageBoardId=1198&order=Recently%20updated&flags=&viewSelect=Recently%20updated&forum=All Excerpts from one of Labhraín's replies: "You probably did not have a VAP test. You probably had a regular cholesterol screening. A regular screening does not measure LDLs - it calculates LDLs. And, it uses a very poor formula for calculating them. The formula, called the Freidewald formula, has an inherent problem with it. If your triglycerides are below 100 (very typical on a low carb diet and a good thing,) then it will spit out a high LDL result. The lower the triglycerdies, the higher the LDL result it will give you. It's not very accurate at all. Also, the Freidewald tells you nothing about the health of your LDLs. You need a VAP test to tell you if your LDLs are Pattern Type A, which are large, fluffy and buoyant (healthy) or if they are Pattern Type B, which are small and dense (not healthy.) ... Healthy Pattern Type A LDLs are typically associated with low triglycerides and high HDLs. A high fat, low carb diet can produce this result. Pattern Type B are typically associated with high triglylcerides and low HDLs. A high carb (especially high sugar) diet can produce this result." 

Hey there, I hear you, really I do! This time in a womans life can play havoc with EVERYTHING! Perhaps you are building more muscle? I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but what I do know is that I trust you will find a path to follow that is right for you. Whatever that is, we will support you all the way. 

BTW, with regard to the increased weight issue, there was a post on the other forum on that topic that I found interesting as it seemed I was having a bit of the same issue of getting stuck or perhaps even going up despite sticking pretty well to the low carb plan. The consensus among those replying was that there were several things to consider. One thread of thought was that weight tended to fluctuate by several pounds from day to day and that the scale readings had to be taken with a grain of salt because of those fluctuations. Women in particularly had more fluctuations because their hormones varied more widely than those of the men, but everyone could have fluctuations because of fluctuations water weight, or how much food was still in their gut that hadn't been processed yet etc. Another train of thought was that exercise had an effect and that sometimes people could be adding muscle mass even as they are losing fat, or perhaps maintaining a relatively constant level. Weight might be going up but body tone or percentage body fat might be stable or even improving. The consensus was not to put too much emphasis on the scale. Some recommended using tape measurements for a more reliable indicator of what was going on. As I said, I'm new to this, but it sounds pretty reasonable to me.  

Hope I'm not being too wordy here & wasting bandwidth, but in case anyone is interested, Gary Taubes had gotten into a debate with Dr. Oz, who has a very different diet program, on Dr. Oz' TV show. He decided to get a blood test done and post the results on his blog. I don't know much about how to read it, but can see that his cholesterol is slightly elevated, but his HDL is in a good range, and I think it also shows his "neutral" LDL is also a little elevated, the "bad" LDL is in a good range as well: http://www.garytaubes.com/blog/ http://www.garytaubes.com/ Also, some screenshots from Mr. Taubes'book can be downloaded here: Two columns per page (smaller print): http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?1ss5l1g74pqd236 One column / page (larger print): http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?30d46oiymczhb2o  

Thank you all sooooo much. Jeff - I could not remember the name of the more DETAILED test - so thank you!!! This was just your standard blood draw, and I hadn't even fasted. So you will bet I will be asking for the VAP (whatever that stands for, which I will look up) ... and I will make sure it is a fasted test. As for all of the other info here - from all of you - thank you again. I will go back thru this stuff in detail, from the Protein Power - to Taubes work - and continue my reading. For RIGHT NOW - I have decided to stick w/ my original plan, remain on Induction for another week - hope that my period ends and takes with it whatever retention involved. When the variables are less murky next week, we will look at this again to see the progress... or lack thereof. I will continue w/ my exercise routines as usual. Same foods, water, etc... and just let another week pass. Then I will re-assess yet again. Think the whole reading about Cholesterol, lowering fat, lowering protein, ... got me all worried. That and my reality that I just seem to be on the 1, then 2 lb climb in the wrong direction. It may take me a couple of months at Induction levels - but if I know I am truly losing on it...I will stick with it. Right now, I just don't know if last week's Induction was a loss, but the TOM was a gain... blah, blah, blah... too much time and attention to something that should just HAPPEN! Don't you just feel that way some days! or is it just me? Much Love...and thanks for all the help! 

I can truely understand your feelings. That is honestly the way I feel about food and food related thoughts in general - I just hate having to think about this stuff when there are so many other things my brain could be used for. But I have to do it.... :) 

Oh, and I just wanted to say, if Curves can complete the shaping and toning aspect of my exercise... than I really don't care too much about the number on the scale. Just disappointed that once upon a time I was far more toned, sculpted, shaped, defined (from 6 mo's at Curves) than I am now after 2 1/2 years of going to the gym. Maybe I am not always using the machines or weights... but walking, eliptical, etc... and some weights... but still.... Anyway, if I could improve on the overall shapely-ness I would feel better. Regardless of the number. But I seriously don't think it's 'muscle'... at least not most of it. (the difference between when I got to 140, and now...) 

its muscle that has decided it wanted a break and is relaxing... whip it back in shape and you will be good ;) (just trying to put a little bit of humor in this so I hope you don't think I am serious) 

Pixi - you are just what the Dr. ordered! :)))) 

Have you ever thought of looking into the paleolithic diet basically eat what you'd find if you were dropped in a forest? I know that it is supposed to work wonders for lowering triglycerides and cholesterol. Long term it is where I want to end up - just seems like a much healthier and more natural way of living. I am currently reading the paleolithic diet by Loren Cordain and the primal blueprint by Mark Sisson - they both seem to make a lot of sense to me.